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A discussion brought up on Can the same contestant represent their country in both Miss World and Miss universe? on whether a televised show like The Miss Universe Pageant is on topic here.

A Related question, Is a question on WWE on topic? Resolved as Wrestling, in regards to the scripted Plot, is on topic, but general sports related questions are not.

A contest like Miss Universe, The MTV Music Awards, So you Think you can Dance?, The Purina Incredible Dog Challenge, Or The Strongman Competition lack any sense of scripting or artistic value, vis-a-vis Movies and TV shows. They can't be considered a Reality Show in the same way Survivor or The Real World would. They exist outside of TV, and their televised nature doesn't affect them at all. Survivor only exists to be televised, Miss Universe much less so.

Should these be considered On Topic for M&TV, or not? Is there any compelling reason they should be?

Obviously, some may be tangentially on-topic, like the Oscars or the Emmys, maybe the MTV Movie Awards, not because they are televised, but because of the topic they cover, movies and film.

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    Thanks, I'll hereby take the "should these be considered on topic" as the primary question when voting on it...Hmm, but then again, the question already makes good counter arguments and seems to be against it. I guess I'll rather abstain from voting for now and try to vote on the answers then.
    – Napoleon Wilson Mod
    Commented Nov 16, 2015 at 22:09
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    Technically, The Miss ___ pageants wouldn't be financially viable without their TV shows... so I don't think you can really say they'd exist without TV (to the degree that they exist with it).
    – Catija
    Commented Nov 16, 2015 at 22:34
  • Well, Beauty Pageants happen all the time without being televised at multiple sizes, and are considered financially viable (or break even). Only the final parts of the pageant are televised too, unlike American Idol which is televised over weeks.
    – cde
    Commented Nov 16, 2015 at 22:43
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    I really appreciate your effort and love to see community conclusion on this and don't mind downvote either in this case, if its from anyone :) . Presented my view as an answer.
    – Ankit Sharma Mod
    Commented Nov 17, 2015 at 9:12

3 Answers 3

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Over on the Science Fiction & Fantasy Stack Exchange site, our policy for works that aren't generally considered on-topic, but occasionally have elements that are (e.g. a show that generally has nothing to do with science fiction or fantasy, but has one element or one episode that does) is that only questions about those particular elements are on-topic. It doesn't make any question about the non-science fiction/fantasy elements of the work on-topic.

Applying that here, I'd suggest that questions about the television aspects (e.g. the production of the show itself) would be on topic, but any other questions wouldn't be. So asking about the specifics of producing a television broadcast of Miss Universe would be on topic, but the question on the rules mentioned in this Meta question wouldn't be.

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  • This approach also seems to reflect the current policy on WWE questions.
    – Napoleon Wilson Mod
    Commented Nov 17, 2015 at 15:44
  • I agree to Anthony Grist's opinion.
    – Giuseppe
    Commented Nov 17, 2015 at 17:26
  • Would this question be an example of this in action: Why do panelists on British panel shows have a pen and paper which they seem to use regularly? - it's about the set up and studio production of quiz shows, which is on-topic; if it was about, say, the content of the questions ("X quiz answer was judged correct but I think it's wrong"), or the make-up of a beauty contestant, or how a wrestling move works from a sports/safety point of view, or why a particular award was given, it'd be off-topic.
    – user56reinstatemonica8
    Commented Nov 20, 2015 at 9:55
  • @user568458 Yes, that seems like a decent example to me, personally.
    – Anthony Grist
    Commented Nov 20, 2015 at 10:50
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From the "Tour":

Ask about...

  • Analysis of content or theme of all forms of Movies/TV
  • Identifying a Movie or TV series
  • Questions about a Movie/TV show's production.
  • The works of a director / an actor / a writer related to Movies/TV

and

Don't ask about...

  • Anything not directly related to movies and tv
  • Questions that are primarily opinion-based
  • Questions pertaining to specific distribution of movies, purchasing, viewing, or operation of playing a title in the home.
  • TV News and current affairs.
  • A title's release date or rumors about a specific title.
  • Unimportant trivia that does not add to the understanding or appreciation of a title

I would think of rules on these kind of Awards/Beauty/Contests shows are in the "current affairs" category.

They may be worth debating them, they may interest people, but perhaps in the Culture/Recreation SE area (I don't know which one, though).

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Why not?

They comes on TV, similar to a reality show or some sports event. Sports event telecast also doesn't change anything in that match and reality show also edits before showing to TV, We never even see the primary auditions on TV in most of the reality shows.

Side note: Beauty pageant which don't come on TV is obviously off topic.

MTV Music Awards seems off topic to me, they are about music and better suited for Music Fans.SE But that is a different discussion.

So You Think You Can Dance has been asked here before like American Idol or MasterChef

On Non-fiction shows, conclusion was

I don't believe that we should limit the scope of television. Documentary films are non-fiction movies and they are on topic here. Therefore non-fiction television shows should be on topic here as well. - abby hairboat♦

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    So you think any question relating to anything televised should be on-topic, just because it's televised? Are you really going to allow "What is the offside rule in soccer?" to stay open, just because (some) soccer matches are televised?
    – Anthony Grist
    Commented Nov 17, 2015 at 11:41
  • @AnthonyGrist its already been decided here meta.movies.stackexchange.com/questions/1449/… story-related questions on topic, sports part off topic.
    – Ankit Sharma Mod
    Commented Nov 17, 2015 at 11:59
  • And i didn't said anything comes on TV will be on topic. We had discussed many similar expects case by case before; Like commercial, music video etc but there identification are off topic. This answer is for beauty pageant and similar things.
    – Ankit Sharma Mod
    Commented Nov 17, 2015 at 12:05
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    "and similar things" which, according to your answer, includes "some sports event". The rules of a/the beauty pageant are the same thing as the rules of the sport, so if the rules (i.e. the sport aspect) of WWE isn't on topic, then the rules of the beauty pageant shouldn't be either. If that's your position - and it sounds like possibly it is - then that's not the message your answer contains at all.
    – Anthony Grist
    Commented Nov 17, 2015 at 13:32
  • @AnthonyGrist to me its more like a reality show then a sports event and we do have entertained reality show rule questions.
    – Ankit Sharma Mod
    Commented Nov 17, 2015 at 13:34
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    My opinion is that the total opposite is true. It's definitely a lot more like a sports event than it is like a reality show. It's an organised contest with set rules where participants compete against each other; the fact that it's televised has absolutely no bearing on the outcome or even what happens (as far as I know, I've never actually watched Miss World/Universe). Contrast that to a reality show like Jersey Shore, which is just following people around while they live their lives, and the fact that they're recorded does impact/influence events.
    – Anthony Grist
    Commented Nov 17, 2015 at 13:43
  • @AnthonyGrist Rather then jersey shore, i will pick Masterchef or some dance/music reality show to compare.
    – Ankit Sharma Mod
    Commented Nov 17, 2015 at 13:46
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    Ahh, it looks like we have different definitions of "reality show" then. I'd consider Masterchef (based on my knowledge of its format, which may be different to how it actually is these days) to be essentially the same as a beauty pageant or a sports event - it's an organised contest, and the fact it's televised doesn't actually influence the competition aspect - but dance/music shows where the viewers vote on the winners would be slightly different.
    – Anthony Grist
    Commented Nov 17, 2015 at 13:51
  • Let us continue this discussion in chat.
    – Ankit Sharma Mod
    Commented Nov 17, 2015 at 13:53
  • @AnkitSharma Um, do you really use the WWE policy, that explicitly says rule-based question are off, to reason in favour of your question? This doesn't really seem to go congruent.
    – Napoleon Wilson Mod
    Commented Nov 17, 2015 at 15:46
  • @NapoleonWilson it just got diverted in the middle of discussion.
    – Ankit Sharma Mod
    Commented Nov 18, 2015 at 7:44

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